Season 3: In For A Wild (Sexier) Ride

miecies wrote:Very interesting interview w/EVC & Nick.

Jemily: Do They Have a Chance?

 I think Jemily has a chance if Emily can just reason with Jack and he can just be patient.  She doesn't want him involved in her revenge, so all he has to do is sit back, raise Baby Carl, tend the bar, and be patient.  They can even keep their romance secret from everyone in order to protect Jack.

singlyme wrote:The writers painted themselves into a corner by giving Jack a child.  I understand that a pregnant Amanda was a foil for Em & Jack's budding relationship.  But when they then decided to kill off the Amanda character, it left them with a dilemma.  They couldn't drown a baby - so it became excess baggage for Jack.

He's either a loving and devoted single dad (boring in a drama such as this) or an inattentive one, palming off baby Carl (not attractive) to whomever will watch him.  See what I mean?  No matter how they treat Jack's character, the baby has killed whatever charisma they left in him.  First, they took him from a scruffy yet appealing lost love to a wuss.  Then rash and irresponsible, with no thought to what would become of his son after he shot Vic.  Now, they're going to weaken him further by making him a lush? 

The same goes for Charlotte having a baby.  She's always been troubled.  So this will make her grow up and become smarter, I suppose?  They should really leave babies out of the equation on a show like this.  There will always be judgments on parenting.  It's a no-win situation.

The writers did paint "themselves into a corner by giving Jack a child."  Like you, Singly, I understand why they did it.  Now, however, it completely changes his character - he's either a good father or not a good father, so long as the baby is in the picture.

Charlotte has always had issues.  This could make her grow up or it could do her in.  I agree with you that babies just complicate shows like this.

miecies wrote:

singlyme wrote:The writers painted themselves into a corner by giving Jack a child.....they then decided to kill off the Amanda character, it left them with a dilemma.  They couldn't drown a baby - so it became excess baggage for Jack.

He's either a loving and devoted single dad (boring in a drama such as this) or an inattentive one, palming off baby Carl (not attractive) to whomever will watch him.  See what I mean?  No matter how they treat Jack's character, the baby has killed whatever charisma they left in him. 

And they're saying this season will be sexier and I'm trying to figure out how Jack will play into that type of show considering where his character will be. There's nothing attractive about the Jack you just described. He's not going down the revenge path. He's grieveing the lost of his wife and brother. In rage over a huge deception by a girl he thought was pure as the driven snow. Emptying out his bar via drowning his sorrows. All the while parenting a son by a woman he didn't really know. Typing all this just made me feel sorry for Jack (a very great feat I might add). I think it's time for Jack to pack it up and find a fresh start w/Carl somewhere else.

singlyme wrote:The same goes for Charlotte having a baby......They should really leave babies out of the equation on a show like this.

Oh I think they're about to fix this one. A notable character is rushed to the emergency room in Episode 4. It will be a life-death situation. Got to be Charlotte losing the baby.

Well, I guess that fixes that situation.  I think that will just cause more problems for Charlotte.  It will probably make Vicky happy, though, since she doesn't want Charlotte having Declan's baby.

miecies wrote:Oh goodness no, please don't kill Jack. That would leave Carl orphaned and really as much as I rag on Jack I would hate it for his fans. After everything he's been through (now it appears he's about to lose the last link to his brother) the guy deserves some happiness. At this point I just don't buy it could ever be with Emily.

No, please don't kill Jack!(:  At this point, I think he and Emily will get together near the very last episode of the series, when everything has been played out.  I think she and Victoria will be the ones left standing, along with Jack.  While Emily will finally get Jack in her life, I think everyone will have a lot of moving on to do to get rid of their revenge memories.  They'll finally get to live happily ever after, but it will be bittersweet.

Has anyone noticed that there's a book about this series coming out sometime in mid-August?  I think it's called "Out for Revenge" - or something like that.  They're promoting it on the other website.  The word "revenge" is shown on the book's cover just like it is on the TV show, so I figured this must have ABC's blessing.  Lo and behold, when I looked up the author on Amazon, it says he's one of the show's writers.  The book features Emily, Takeda, and a new character.

Personally, at this point in time, I wish the writers would just focus on the show.  Hello out there in writer-land - haven't all of you writers been listening to the fans?  I really don't have any desire to read the book right now and just complicate all the other story lines from the show that are going through my head.  In fact, I'm not sure I ever want to read the book.  Now, if it was a book featuring everything we've already seen in the show, I would read it to refresh my memory and to see what they left out in the TV version.  But, a new storyline?  I don't get that at all, except that it's probably all about the money.

BlueMoon wrote:Has anyone noticed that there's a book about this series coming out sometime in mid-August? I think it's called "Out for Revenge" - or something like that.......I don't get that at all, except that it's probably all about the money.

Revenge is a huge international hit! It's definitely all about the money.

BlueMoon wrote:I think Jemily has a chance if Emily can just reason with Jack and he can just be patient. She doesn't want him involved in her revenge, so all he has to do is sit back, raise Baby Carl, tend the bar, and be patient. They can even keep their romance secret from everyone in order to protect Jack.

It's because of your earnest support of Jack that I have the tiny bit of compassion for him. The lens by which you view him and Emily is so hopeful but you just relegated him to practically being a barstool (pun intended) on a drama. And the fact that you still see romance/HEA as possible between these two is just amazing. I amost want it for you. Almost!

If it has Takeda, it can't be a new story line.  Read about the Initiative???? No thanks.  No way.  No how.

miecies wrote:

BlueMoon wrote:Has anyone noticed that there's a book about this series coming out sometime in mid-August? I think it's called "Out for Revenge" - or something like that.......I don't get that at all, except that it's probably all about the money.

Revenge is a huge international hit! It's definitely all about the money.

Oh, Miecies, I know, but it would be so nice to be able to read the storyline thus far.  But, instead, now, we're going to have a book with a new storyline and a new character while we're still trying to figure out this one - right when the new season is beginning.  Plus, there will undoubtedly be another book - and another.  It will be like all the vampire stories that have been spinoffs from Twilight and the Sookie Sackhouse books.   Let's not forget all the Jane Austen books, either . . .

miecies wrote:

BlueMoon wrote:I think Jemily has a chance if Emily can just reason with Jack and he can just be patient. She doesn't want him involved in her revenge, so all he has to do is sit back, raise Baby Carl, tend the bar, and be patient. They can even keep their romance secret from everyone in order to protect Jack.

It's because of your earnest support of Jack that I have the tiny bit of compassion for him. The lens by which you view him and Emily is so hopeful but you just relegated him to practically being a barstool (pun intended) on a drama. And the fact that you still see romance/HEA as possible between these two is just amazing. I amost want it for you. Almost!

Ahhhh! . . . Well, Emily doesn't want him in the middle of things.  It's like she wants him to be as "untouched" as possible.  However, Emily is going to have to leave Jack back at the bar - meanwhile, back at the bar:) - with Baby Carl while she goes off to Paris to marry Daniel and perform other feats of revenge in order to bring down the Graysons.  In the meantime, time passes and people change.  Who's really to say either one of them will want the other at the end of it all?  Will love conquer all?  Emily may discover in the end that Aiden is the one for her.  I think Aiden will love her regardless of what she does.  Those two sort of remind me of Scarlett O'Hara and Rhett Butler in Gone With the Wind.  They're both renegades, and they'll do whatever it takes.  However, that doesn't mean either one of them thinks less of the other.  Now, Jack, that's a different story.  He is totally out of his league with all of this revenge stuff. 

I just think there's got to be something - even bittersweet - to the Jack and Emily story.  Otherwise, why is he still with us?  It's like he is part of the "goodness" that's left out of all of the revenge.  They won't have Jack's boat to sail off into the sunset, but Emily can buy them a yacht!  

By the way, what's "HEA"?

singlyme wrote:If it has Takeda, it can't be a new story line.  Read about the Initiative???? No thanks.  No way.  No how.

All I read, Singly, was that Takeda was in the story, along with Emily and some new girl.  I didn't read anything in the preview about the AI.  But, I agree with you.  I'm done with the Helens and whatever that other shady-looking guy's name was.  Since the book isn't called just Revenge, maybe ABC said the storyline had to be a little different so it wouldn't interfere with the actual show.

BlueMoon wrote:By the way, what's "HEA"?

happily ever after

Blue, what an EXCELLENT analogy of the Scarlett/Rhett characters to Em/Aiden.  That leaves Jack as the idealistic Ashley Wilkes.  In thinking back, I could never understand what Scarlett saw in Ashley.  LOL.

In order to convince me that a Jack/true Amanda hook-up was a possible ending, they'd have to do some "fancy dancin'" on changes to both characters.  He'd have to be more of a man and she'd have to mellow out.

Of course, writers have a way of throwing situations into the mix that cause people to change.  Consider that Jack turned momentarily (and stupidly) murderous after Declan died.  And, they took him from level-headed to inept in trying to take down Conrad w/Ashley.  Both hits to his intelligence and planning skills - completely out of his basic element.

I have high hopes that the mess they made of these two in season two can be redirected by the new show-runner's hands on the reins.  We'll have to bear in mind that he can only start with the path that was left to him in last season's finale.  Let's see what road he takes.

They'd probably have to make Aiden betray Emily on a fundamental level to bring me back to that longing for lost love with Jack.  It would have to be on a more current front because they sank the boat on the childhood connection.

singlyme wrote:Of course, writers have a way of throwing situations into the mix that cause people to change.  Consider that Jack turned momentarily (and stupidly) murderous after Declan died.  And, they took him from level-headed to inept in trying to take down Conrad w/Ashley.  Both hits to his intelligence and planning skills - completely out of his basic element.

Jack's arc after Amanda's death was the most interesting he's ever been to me. Every step they took with him made sense in my mind for a guy that had suffered the tragedy of losing his wife, almost losing his own life and subsequently losing his brother all at the hands of a monstrous family. Especially one that had caused those he love hurt in the past. Jack wasn't thinking straight and every action he took showed that. They actually built up to this by giving Jack that arc w/the Ryan bros which involved subterfuge. He failed there as well until Amanda bailed them out with her threat to Conrad. It was like a test run to show Jack is out of his league with manipulation and underhandedness. He really is a great guy who's been dealt an awful hand. Which leads me to.......

singlyme wrote:I have high hopes that the mess they made of these two in season two can be redirected by the new show-runner's hands on the reins.  We'll have to bear in mind that he can only start with the path that was left to him in last season's finale.  Let's see what road he takes.

BlueMoon wrote:I just think there's got to be something - even bittersweet - to the Jack and Emily story.  Otherwise, why is he still with us?  It's like he is part of the "goodness" that's left out of all of the revenge.  They won't have Jack's boat to sail off into the sunset, but Emily can buy them a yacht!  

I think you've both hit on what's going to happen w/Emily&Jack and why. MK killed this couple to me in season 2. He almost completely separated them for 22 episodes w/Emily totally wrapped up in another man and their mission together. Made Carl his son which I was sure he wouldn't be or Amanda would lose the baby. Then to top it off he married off J&A (w/them actually in love) with Emily endorsing it and co-opting her and Jack's memories along with it. Now Jack's left with only his son and the revelation of the deception heaped on him by someone he shared a sweet innocent connection. Emily's mission has thrown a grenade in Jacks' life. Which according to spoilers she's no longer willing to abandon for anyone, not even him. 

The writers have been left quite a conundrum. As you stated singly, the childhood connection doesn't carry much weight now w/what has transpired between them in their adult lives. And I think the only way out within the reality of the show is give these two a bittersweet ending. A tentative friendship w/the echo of what if? ringing in their ears at every encounter. And for Jack to get the heck out of Dodge before he has nothing left. lol!

singlyme wrote:They'd probably have to make Aiden betray Emily on a fundamental level to bring me back to that longing for lost love with Jack. 

Yeah and I don't think they're headed that way w/Aiden & Emily. The showrunner has Aiden headed toward growth which would be the natural arc for his character now that he's realized the price that revenge exacts from a person's soul. But I don't think he will lose the willingness to dish out some if it's warrant but his tactics will most likely be different. He's going to be more in control and put down the gun. I wouldn't equate growth with betrayal but I do think they'll harken back to what we saw w/them in the beginning of s2. They'll have that Mr. & Mrs. Smith vibe, antagonistic but w/that sexual attraction and longing simmering beneath the surface.

mieces: after your description of Jack's rack & ruin, it's a wonder he's not a psycho.  LOL.  I wonder how much his hatred of the Vic & Conrad will influence his understanding of Em's mission?

singlyme wrote:Blue, what an EXCELLENT analogy of the Scarlett/Rhett characters to Em/Aiden.  That leaves Jack as the idealistic Ashley Wilkes.  In thinking back, I could never understand what Scarlett saw in Ashley.  LOL.

In order to convince me that a Jack/true Amanda hook-up was a possible ending, they'd have to do some "fancy dancin'" on changes to both characters.  He'd have to be more of a man and she'd have to mellow out.

Of course, writers have a way of throwing situations into the mix that cause people to change.  Consider that Jack turned momentarily (and stupidly) murderous after Declan died.  And, they took him from level-headed to inept in trying to take down Conrad w/Ashley.  Both hits to his intelligence and planning skills - completely out of his basic element.

I have high hopes that the mess they made of these two in season two can be redirected by the new show-runner's hands on the reins.  We'll have to bear in mind that he can only start with the path that was left to him in last season's finale.  Let's see what road he takes.

They'd probably have to make Aiden betray Emily on a fundamental level to bring me back to that longing for lost love with Jack.  It would have to be on a more current front because they sank the boat on the childhood connection.

Singly, Thank you! I forgot all about Ashley until long after I had finished my post, but I think, too, that he could be Emily's Ashley Wilkes.  

The only things left from Emily's childhood are Jack and her house.  The boat's gone, Sammy's gone . . . It seems to stand to reason that the writers will leave her with Jack in the end.

singlyme wrote:mieces: after your description of Jack's rack & ruin, it's a wonder he's not a psycho. LOL. I wonder how much his hatred of the Vic & Conrad will influence his understanding of Em's mission?

LOL! Yeah that's why I can't completely dismiss the guy because he's really taken a beaten and not of his own doing. And plus I think Nick Weschler has a self-deprecating, almost to the point of self-loathing, charm. I like to watch his interviews.

From all the spoilers (interviews) I've seen he won't understand. He thinks she's crazy. LOL! Nick stated in an interview that Jack is more concerned about loving his son more than hurting the Graysons.

miecies wrote:

singlyme wrote:Of course, writers have a way of throwing situations into the mix that cause people to change.  Consider that Jack turned momentarily (and stupidly) murderous after Declan died.  And, they took him from level-headed to inept in trying to take down Conrad w/Ashley.  Both hits to his intelligence and planning skills - completely out of his basic element.

Jack's arc after Amanda's death was the most interesting he's ever been to me. Every step they took with him made sense in my mind for a guy that had suffered the tragedy of losing his wife, almost losing his own life and subsequently losing his brother all at the hands of a monstrous family. Especially one that had caused those he love hurt in the past. Jack wasn't thinking straight and every action he took showed that. They actually built up to this by giving Jack that arc w/the Ryan bros which involved subterfuge. He failed there as well until Amanda bailed them out with her threat to Conrad. It was like a test run to show Jack is out of his league with manipulation and underhandedness. He really is a great guy who's been dealt an awful hand. Which leads me to.......

singlyme wrote:I have high hopes that the mess they made of these two in season two can be redirected by the new show-runner's hands on the reins.  We'll have to bear in mind that he can only start with the path that was left to him in last season's finale.  Let's see what road he takes.

BlueMoon wrote:I just think there's got to be something - even bittersweet - to the Jack and Emily story.  Otherwise, why is he still with us?  It's like he is part of the "goodness" that's left out of all of the revenge.  They won't have Jack's boat to sail off into the sunset, but Emily can buy them a yacht!  

I think you've both hit on what's going to happen w/Emily&Jack and why. MK killed this couple to me in season 2. He almost completely separated them for 22 episodes w/Emily totally wrapped up in another man and their mission together. Made Carl his son which I was sure he wouldn't be or Amanda would lose the baby. Then to top it off he married off J&A (w/them actually in love) with Emily endorsing it and co-opting her and Jack's memories along with it. Now Jack's left with only his son and the revelation of the deception heaped on him by someone he shared a sweet innocent connection. Emily's mission has thrown a grenade in Jacks' life. Which according to spoilers she's no longer willing to abandon for anyone, not even him. 

The writers have been left quite a conundrum. As you stated singly, the childhood connection doesn't carry much weight now w/what has transpired between them in their adult lives. And I think the only way out within the reality of the show is give these two a bittersweet ending. A tentative friendship w/the echo of what if? ringing in their ears at every encounter. And for Jack to get the heck out of Dodge before he has nothing left. lol!

singlyme wrote:They'd probably have to make Aiden betray Emily on a fundamental level to bring me back to that longing for lost love with Jack. 

Yeah and I don't think they're headed that way w/Aiden & Emily. The showrunner has Aiden headed toward growth which would be the natural arc for his character now that he's realized the price that revenge exacts from a person's soul. But I don't think he will lose the willingness to dish out some if it's warrant but his tactics will most likely be different. He's going to be more in control and put down the gun. I wouldn't equate growth with betrayal but I do think they'll harken back to what we saw w/them in the beginning of s2. They'll have that Mr. & Mrs. Smith vibe, antagonistic but w/that sexual attraction and longing simmering beneath the surface.

Aiden and Emily just really have it all regarding their relationship - understanding, trust, and passion.  Jack is really just a childhood dream.  Now, if Aiden's jealousy of Jack causes him to betray Emily, that could turn the tide for his relationship with Emily.  But, Aiden actually seemed more hurt than jealous about Emily's feelings for Jack.  With Daniel, he's jealous, but, of course, she's sleeping with him.

BlueMoon wrote:The only things left from Emily's childhood are Jack and her house. The boat's gone, Sammy's gone . . . It seems to stand to reason that the writers will leave her with Jack in the end.

The boat wasn't from her childhood. But it was in homage to her. When you put it this way I tend to see it the opposite. After her revenge is over I think she would leave it all behind and start fresh. New town, new house, etc.  Because really the last memories in the house from Emily's childhood are horrific.

 

BlueMoon wrote: But, Aiden actually seemed more hurt than jealous about Emily's feelings for Jack. With Daniel, he's jealous, but, of course, she's sleeping with him.

I like that about Aiden. He never appeared threathened over losing Emily to the men in her life but more to the mission. Even w/Daniel he stated he wasn't jealous. He and Jack are supposely going to have more scenes together. I actually hope they develop a mutual respect for each other. Daniel I just have nothing for that character anymore. I enjoy seeing him being duped and await the moment when he learns the truth.

miecies wrote:

singlyme wrote:mieces: after your description of Jack's rack & ruin, it's a wonder he's not a psycho. LOL. I wonder how much his hatred of the Vic & Conrad will influence his understanding of Em's mission?

LOL! Yeah that's why I can't completely dismiss the guy because he's really taken a beaten and not of his own doing. And plus I think Nick Weschler has a self-deprecating, almost to the point of self-loathing, charm. I like to watch his interviews.

From all the spoilers (interviews) I've seen he won't understand. He thinks she's crazy. LOL! Nick stated in an interview that Jack is more concerned about loving his son more than hurting the Graysons.

Emily is kind of crazy!  I mean, here she is young, single, and wealthy.  She could do anything she wants, but all she wants is to get some revenge.  I think Declan's passing and the Graysons part in that have made Jack look more towards the welfare of his son.

miecies wrote:

BlueMoon wrote:The only things left from Emily's childhood are Jack and her house. The boat's gone, Sammy's gone . . . It seems to stand to reason that the writers will leave her with Jack in the end.

The boat wasn't from her childhood. But it was in homage to her. When you put it this way I tend to see it the opposite. After her revenge is over I think she would leave it all behind and start fresh. New town, new house, etc.  Because really the last memories in the house from Emily's childhood are horrific.

 

BlueMoon wrote: But, Aiden actually seemed more hurt than jealous about Emily's feelings for Jack. With Daniel, he's jealous, but, of course, she's sleeping with him.

I like that about Aiden. He never appeared threathened over losing Emily to the men in her life but more to the mission. Even w/Daniel he stated he wasn't jealous. He and Jack are supposely going to have more scenes together. I actually hope they develop a mutual respect for each other. Daniel I just have nothing for that character anymore. I enjoy seeing him being duped and await the moment when he learns the truth.

I would think she would want to leave the Hamptons, too - unless she buys the Graysons' house and tears it down, she's going to be looking at it all the time. 
I know she really likes that house, but it does have a lot of bad memories associated with it.  Right now, it's sort of a "command post."  She could buy an island somewhere!  Anywhere she wants!

I think if Emily does choose Jack in the end that Aiden will respect that simply because he loves her, and that he will respect Jack, too.

I enjoy seeing Daniel duped, too.  I'm surprised he hasn't started drinking or gone completely nuts!  You're right - just wait until he finds out who Emily really is.  Although he seemed to have some empathy for Amanda Clarke, I don't think he'll have any when he finds out how Emily has used him so that she could destroy his family.

miecies wrote:

BlueMoon wrote:By the way, what's "HEA"?

happily ever after

  I didn't even think of that!

The show hasn't even started yet, and look at us!   

LOL! 4 pages of speculations from spoilers.

I'm just really hopeful about this season because

1) No initiative.
2) Aiden's back.
3) The loveaquare has been declared to be a triangle A&E&J. Daniel is a pawn.
4) Charlotte is loose from Declan and will be pulled into the fray.
and
5) A timetable has been set on the mission's end so maybe we are close to the Graysons finally getting their comeuppance.

It looks like we made the jump from the ABC board just in time.  I popped over there to take a peek and there's NO message board that I can see.  I did watch a short clip about Em learning Takeda's true motive.

Miecies, your list is an impressive one.  I'm looking forward to what they've promised for this season.  Especially, the regular take-downs. 

As for the Graysons, what happens when the revenge is complete?  End of show?  Won't it be nice to see Conrad exposed and disgraced while governor?  They're already broke.  And I don't see Vic leaving the manor for a bedroom in the governor's mansion.  I think she already HAD everything she's ever wanted right where she is.  Well... the money IS gone.  LOL

Will Emily end up in the manor?  Probably not.  While a tempting hostile take-over, the beach house is where her happy memories live.