Bachelor in Paradise...new season

skt, I enjoyed your comments. You said it well. This show is so twisted
i don't even know how they come up with all this stuff. lol

Connor could be CH's son.

Christian Estrada wants to sue. I guess he is embarrassed that Jordan got the best of him. This guy is a piece of crap. "Though Paradise filmed months ago, Estrada isn't over it. He claimed he'd like to either fight Kimball for real or sue him. "If Jordan tries to shake my hand at the reunion I won't shake it until after we fight. No cameras no security. Let's go one on one bro! You think you're tough? I'm tougher than you! Anytime bro. You can go to my gym and we can handle this," he said during the interview.

He continued. "Boxing gloves, street fight, whatever Jordan wants, I have the best lawyers in NY looking at the case right now," Estrada said. "My dad got a hold of attorneys and we'll see if this is Jordan's fault or ABC but there's going to be consequences."

I enjoy reading all your comments, Mule.  Thanks for responding even though I was late to the party .  You're right, that is CH.  I didn't know if the picture on the left (or on the top if you're on a phone? lol) is that recognizable.  I don't know if I would have recognized him had it not been said.  That was CH way back in 1989.

Christian Estrada should let it go but that's not who he is.  He sounds like he's in junior high.  I'm not sure ABC is technically liable under the law.  Jordan's a different story.  
Putting aside Christian's own actions and Jordan's actions in the fight, I don't believe ABC could have reasonably foreseen the physical fight.  Jordan hadn't gotten into a physical fight previously on the show to put ABC on notice of a potential situation involving Jordan, and throwing a teddy bear in the ocean isn't quite the same thing.  ABC had security on the premises and it's not reasonable to expect security to hover around cast members all the time when there was no prior fight involving Jordan.  Plus the fight was stopped as soon as they reasonably could stop it.  I'm not sure any of the crew that stopped them were security and if they didn't come in soon afterwards, they probably should have, but then again I don't believe ABC could have reasonably foreseen the physical fight.  I don't believe the fact that Leo last time splashed water on Joe's face would require them to hover around other cast members who had never gotten into a physical fight on the show.   I doubt also that Christian had serious injuries but if he's serious about suing someone, he'd probably claim "emotional distress." lol

Having said all that, I think ABC would settle the case if Christian were to ever go through with suing them.  They can certainly afford to make such a case go away  lol.  I don't know quite how much money Jordan has but ABC definitely has deep pockets so ABC would be named in a suit if Christian were to ever carry out his threat.  I have a feeling he'll never sue; I don't know.  He's a hot head though.


I forgot to respond to your question about the huge scar on the back of Blake's head from one side to the other.   It kind of looked to me like the way his hair was styled.  

P.S.  I just found an article about it. https://www.distractify.com/p/blake-horstmann-scar .  A hair transplant?  I don't know.

Preview of the new introduction segment for BIP ... I might like seeing the new cast members more than the current ones. lol

https://twitter.com/NWUMSoccer/status/1167227182080548865?s=20

Since contestants sign a contract to be on the show there is probably no way Christian could sue abc for anything. I think he is blowing smoke. Jordan started the mess, but he didn't seem to want a fight. it was Christian who came after him. Jordan has sad it was self defense and I think he has a good case for that. Also, Jordan quit when security showed up but Christian kept trying to go after Jordan.

I had noticed that 'scar' on Blake before but now it was really prominent in the angle he was shown. At first I thought it was hat hair, but then thought it looked like a scar. A transplant? I don't know what that would look like. I didn't know there was talk about it. Thanks for that link, skt.

What is wrong with JPJ? The whole time he was talking to Tayshia telling him how much she meant to him, he didn't even look at her. He is so weird. He's gross blowing his nose. lol

The look on Blake's face was priceless when Haley was talking about men being awful. He deserves his misery.

I do not care for Angela. As she walked down the aisle in the wedding ceremony she was really strutting her stuff. I'd say she is there to get her man back or at least make him jealous.

They all seem to handle things in such a stupid way. They play head games. Tayshia is irritating the way she is handling things. She is a player but just goes about it in a sweet way and manipulates people into thinking her intentions are pure. She was not honest with JPJ or Derek. She was the one who pursued Derek and told JPJ to go on dates because that was her sweet way of pushing him away. Now she acts like she doesn't like the love triangle like she was not involved in creating it. She is annoying.

It seems that Tayshia let JPJ and Derek's arguing get to her which affected her relationship with Derek.  She is acting childish.

OMG there were so many laughs in this show. Blake trying to convince himself he wants Kristina and that he is glad to not be going on a date with Bri. lol I don't see how it could ever work with Kristina. Blake should have left that alone.

Matt...his mama's gonna kill him. seriously? He didn't waste that much time with Bri though. lol

JPJ just makes me laugh. They said he was intelligent and could carry on a great conversation. I think they are lying to us. lol The parrot knows a pirate when he sees one.

Caelynn says she's glad Dean left. She didn't want to live in a van. Enter Dean. lol

I don't get it … I really don't understand why Tayshia is keeping JPJ hanging on … is she serious ?  I know he's funny but he's also immature and kinda gross with all his barfing and snot nose.  She passed on Derek for this ?  

I sure hope Cailynn doesn't give in to Dean.  Even if they have a great connection I don't see where it can lead except a life on the road in his van.  

And Blake surprised us all by sticking with Kristina when Bri showed up but who does he think he's fooling ? It sure looked like an act of desperation when he convinced himself to settle for her after no one else would have him.

yes yes yes, moon. Desperation is what I thought too. They all seem to love the one they're with at the moment.

When they showed girls' hands with an engagement ring, one hand looked like Katies's, one hand looked like Tayshia's. Can it really be??!! It's looking like Hannah is a sure thing.

Caelynn was really into Dean before he left, and he sounded sincere in his changing ways. LOL yeah, right. Connor does nothing for me so I don't think she will choose him. So many women think a man will change. Even Nicole will try to change Clay. He is not exciting and care free as she would like. Good luck with that to both of them.

Skt8, I caught that too. JPJ said the first time that he was looking for his wife since he was 18...and then he said the second time that he has been looking for a wife for 18 years. I don’t think the dude knows what he is saying from one second to the next. He is just too bizarre. I can’t see anyone taking him seriously which is why the Tayshia thing seems weird and put on. And I agree that some of his actions look drug induced. And the way he verbally sparred with Derek, as a female he was interested in, that alone would make me run fast in the opposite direction. He verbally attacks and doesn’t let you get a word in at all, and then when Derek tried to calmly pull him aside to talk, JPJ’s reaction at first was to just turn it down and find every way possible to just say no. So basically he wants to say all he has to say and you aren’t allowed to give your side of the argument. That’s not how you act as an adult but as a child. He reminds me of Jim Carrey as to how he over acts. I never liked Jim Carrey because comedy and acting never seems natural to him. He tries too hard to be funny to the point that it isn’t funny to me. That’s what JPJ seems to do. All his actions seem too over the top as if he’s over acting. He’s just too weird.

I also agree with what you all are saying about Tayshia. JPJ seemed like a a last ditch effort for her to get a rose. Then when Demi ditched Derek, Tayshia was all about him. Then she decides he isn’t for her when new guys come into paradise. She is all over the place.

Sooooooo, Blake now decides that Kristina is the one he wanted all along. Are these people serious? Blake was just lamenting that he had no one and felt lonely in paradise. Ummm, maybe because you screwed around with half of them and now no one will come near you! He needs to just go home and so does Kristina. It’s almost over so they have no reason to be there anymore.

So, Christian Estrada wants to sue, eh? I don’t see where he has a case. From what I remember Jordan may have started it by grabbing the piñata but Christian seemed to be the one that got aggressive with Jordan by making physical contact first. Jordan just got the best of him and maybe that embarrassed Christian since it was put out there for the whole world to see. And as was already said, Jordan walked away as Christian kept coming after him to the point that he had to be tackled by security. Christian was obnoxious with Clay too. I can’t see a judge Siding with him since his actions were all caught on film, and I’m sure there were other things caught that we didn’t see. Also, the fact that he is publicly calling Jordan out to fight him would look bad to a judge as well. What an idiot!

I think earlier JPJ said he was looking to be married since he was 18 and when he got upset, he got mixed up and said he was looking to be married for 18 years.  Didn't Christian run after Jordan after Jordan slammed him to the ground?  I think Jordan was taking a chance on a physical altercation when he went up to Christian and started messing with the piñata.  I don't think Jordan was so innocent that he didn't think something physical wouldn't happen.  I think Jordan knew how easily provoked Christian could be.  I'm not totally blaming Jordan, but I kind of think he was poking a tiger.

Oh, absolutely. I don’t think anyone thinks Jordan is completely innocent. He acted that same way last season and I don’t think anyone, including production and the cast members expected anything different. He got away with it last year and I think he thought the same thing this time. But this time he chose to do it with someone that is apparently hot headed and that is where the problem really came in. Christian could have just got in his face and words exchanged but instead he chose to get physical. So he was the instigator in the actual fist fight so he really doesn’t have any grounds to sue when he got his ass handed to him.

I didn't realize he was the instigator in the fistfight.  It was hard to tell with that camera action and things happened so fast.  I thought there may have been a tussle first with the piñata, but I couldn't really tell from the video.  But even after Jordan slammed him to the ground, he was walking away and calling Christian names and acting in a gloating and victorious manner.  If they hadn't held Christian back, it would have been a major fight.

It wasn't Jordan's place to start by ruining the pinata. I hope that he never comes back. That is not entertainment.     

So after arguing with Derek a few times and walking away, JPJ admits to the camera that he doesn't have a lot to back up his claim that Derek is here to take advantage of women.  Meanwhile, JPJ had his hands all over Haley's bottom when he was into Tayshia instead.  

Although he and Haley had only one date, I thought JPJ was insensitive when Haley was right in front of him crying, and he wasn't being honest when he told her he's choosing Tayshia out of "loyalty."  I'm glad that later, Haley didn't let JPJ get away with his hypocrisy and didn't let him off so easily.   He told her in the end "What can you do?" and "Come on. You're a big girl, you can explore your options. Like, don't put this on me now."  Who knows how long he would have waited to tell Haley the truth had he not been called out on it.

I don't like the way Tayshia handled things either.  She encouraged Derek to move on from Demi so that she can pursue him and then for no discernible reason tells him she can't get there with him.  Okay, you can't help who you like, but I don't know how Tayshia can still like JPJ.  Maybe she should take into account his fight with Derek more.  And she should have told JPJ that she was the one who pursued Derek in the first place.  I agree with you Mule, she got herself in a love triangle by persuading Derek to move on and then complains about being in a love triangle.

Ha ha Kristina told the camera it's 2017 now.  Maybe her mind was still on BIP of 2017 when Dean did her wrong.  

Blake has convinced himself what he wanted all along was right in front of him.  It reminded me of what Desiree H. said to Chris in the proposal scene, after her number 1 choice Brooks left because he couldn't get there.  Desiree said basically the same thing, and I didn't believe her either when she said it.

I wonder if someone gave Blake the idea of saying a line from When Harry Met Sally.  Maybe they thought it was relevant because Blake and Kristina have been friends and not a whole lot more.  "When you realize what you want and the life you want, you want it to start immediately, and this whole time you've been right in front of me."  Blake had said he's lonely and tired of getting friendship roses.  Desperate times call for desperate measures.  

Tayshia and Demi were talking with a producer and saying things such as Caelynn has more connection with Dean than with Connor, that she likes Dean more than Connor, that they have more passion than there is with Connor.  They were saying all these things with Connor right there -- Connor really looked to be within earshot, from how the camera angles were and where people were sitting.  The girls were facing the producer and not Connor, but it still seemed very insensitive.

I agree with you rkc, Christian was the initial aggressor.  I watched the fight again and while the camera cuts to Nicole for a brief moment, I saw Christian being the first one to put his hands on the other.   He put his hands on Jordan's face.  Even though Jordan was trying to take the pinata away and even though Christian should have stayed put on the daybed like Clay probably would have, the issue in a suit would probably be who was the initial aggressor. The threat of somebody taking a piece of personal property that belongs to ABC, or even if it is considered Christian's personal property, doesn't justify his putting his hands on someone's face, which is technically a battery.   I also agree with you that Christian's actions, including coming after Jordan to the point that he had to be tackled by security, after they had already been physically separated, and publicly calling Jordan out to a fight, would not look good to a judge.  There's the principle of "unclean hands," and while not directly applicable to this situation, I don't think a judge would look upon his actions favorably.

I don't believe CH when he said it's zero tolerance with regard to the fighting.  Sure, they don't want other cast members or employees to get hurt, but I think they're first and foremost concerned with potential legal liability.   Cast members agreed to hold ABC harmless for many wrongs for which they can't successfully sue, but I don't believe that means they can't successfully sue for any and all situations, at least to point of settlement.   So production had to let both Jordan and Christian go because to allow them to stay would be allowing a known dangerous situation to exist on set when they have a duty to the other cast members, not to mention employees.  Also I heard, and I don't know yet how true it is, but I heard that the Joe and Leo altercation was edited in favor of one over the other  , and so that might not have been zero tolerance.

lol the caption for Chris B. keeps changing.  First, it had the dozen bachelor franchise shows he's been on.  Later it became "Bachelor Series Regular" and then "Bachelor Nation Elder."  Now it's  "Not Gerard Butler."  

I snapped a pic of the latest one.







The above pic is of Gerard Butler and I don't think Chris looks that much like him but it was funny to see that caption.  I thought he should have gotten one that said "Bachelor Franchise Former Retiree."  Hope he gets his happy ending so they don't make fun of him on another season.

That being said, even though Christian may have started it physically, I will say that there was provocation on Jordan's side.  He didn't need to go anywhere near the piñata and he did body slam Christian to the ground which seemed pretty extreme, and as he was walking away, he was calling Christian names and acting very victorious.  Jordan is a provoker and ready to fight, so I wouldn't say Jordan was completely innocent.  I say Christian was at least justified in going after Jordan after being body-slammed to the ground.  I think most people would respond negatively to being body slammed.

He wasn't innocent in a general sense.  He went after a pinata even after Clay said no.
In a suit or courtroom though, his taking a piece of personal property wouldn't justify Christian being the first to put his hands on someone else's face.  After being body slammed, a judge wouldn't see Christian as being justified in coming after Jordan because they had already both been physically separated by crew or security, thus there was no longer any objectively reasonable threat of harm to Christian.   Words are not enough to provoke or justify a battery, no matter how insulting the words.  I get that he was angry, but he can't justifiably go after him still even after they were physically separated, and I don't think pacifists or most people would still act with intent of violence or threat of violence at that point.  Christian called Jordan names too, and hypothetically speaking, if Jordan came after Christian because of being called names or after they were physically separated, Jordan would not be justified in coming after him to resume the fight.  

But I was thinking about Jordan's belief or argument of self-defense and I'm not entirely sure he could successfully claim self-defense in a suit.  The force has to be proportional, and a body slam might be deemed to be more force than is necessary in response to the threat  .  Things were happening so fast that he could have believed he faced an immediate danger or threat of injury, but his belief has to be objectively reasonable.  If he had an objectively reasonable fear of immediate injury, then he might succeed in his defense.  But I think Christian won't end up suing so I think this has been mostly just fun or interesting to talk about.

As far as the name-calling, I meant after Christian was body-slammed and security tackled him, Jordan even after being victorious continued with the name-calling and taunting, just adding insult to injury.  Jordan just wouldn't let up 

That's what I thought you meant, and yeah they were both calling each other names after they were physically separated.  That's the only time they were shown calling each other names.  Maybe because Jordan acted victorious and taunted him  that it led to Christian challenging him to a fight anytime or threatening a lawsuit.  ABC should not invite them to the reunion

I meant Jordan wouldn't let up.

I think it was worse for Christian because Jordan got the last hit in and Christian was probably humiliated in addition.

Glittersisgld wrote:I meant Jordan wouldn't let up.

Ah.  Not Christian, then.

I think they both didn't let up.  Not right away, anyway.
I wasn't looking forward to Jordan being on BIP again.  Although I have to say the bit with Demi made me laugh.   IMO Christian was nothing but insufferable his whole time on BIP.   So if nothing else, at least I haven't had to see him on TV again

... that is, unless they're at the reunion     That's set for Sept. 17, a Tuesday.

But it's good they got sent home.  Although ABC didn't really have a choice.