Re: Strictly Come Dancing 2016/ 2017

by **DeadManDancing** Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:27 pm

Bye bye, Ed. Just in time, I think.

by **Lesallee** Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:41 pm

Just came here to basically say the same thing. He hung in there far longer than I though he would. But it is getting close to crunch time and it would be a shame to keep him at the expense of someone more accomplished.

I was reading some SCD fan comments and they are a familiar refrain. Could be DWTS fans comments, just change the names. They complain about he same things.

by **DeadManDancing** Sun Nov 27, 2016 4:43 pm

They have probably never watched DWTS.

by **Lesallee** Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:36 am

Just read an interview with my sweet Irish lad on MacManiacs. He said he and Oti talk all the time. She became a special friend. We know she's special too, don't we bro? He keeps in touch with all the Strictly bunch (he lives in Sydney) and from DWTS it's always Farbs and Emma.

by **DeadManDancing** Fri Dec 02, 2016 4:04 pm

I had no idea Oti and Tristan were so close, but it's nice to hear. Totally Tristan to maintain friendships from a distance. I really wonder if Oti will return to Cologne next spring. In Germany she was always considered Motsi's little sister only, but she's really stepping out of the shade now. I always knew it was within her.

by **Lesallee** Sat Dec 03, 2016 11:12 am

Danny and Oti will tango to One Night Only from the musical Dream Girls.

From the rehearsal footage I've seen we should be in for a treat from all the couples. Louise continues to impress me and Judge Rinder has certainly done well.

by **DeadManDancing** Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:43 pm

I hope Judge hasn't reached the end of the road yet. Out of all the 'middle of the pack' dancers he has impressed me most from the start with his personality, determination, and unexpected skills, and he might get more sympathy votes than Ore or Claudia. It's going to be a tight race anyway from now on, but I think it's safe to say Danny and Louise have enough fans behind them to deservedly make it to the finale. Whatever British viewers may complain about, compared to DWTS Strictly has remained so much more of a true competition where the dancing comes first.

by **Lesallee** Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:14 pm

Nobody perfect on Musicals Week but Danny and Oti pulled a 38 to top the leaderboard again. I've just seen a brief bit of their tango and it looks good,

by **DeadManDancing** Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:35 pm

The scoring and its perception are different here. Every week is a new dance and a new challenge. Going from 40 to 38 is not the end of the world as we know it, and as long as you're number one on the board, that will translate into getting the most points anyway.

by **DeadManDancing** Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:37 pm

Here we go.

Probably the most American QS I have ever seen on the UK show.

by **Psychee22** Sat Dec 03, 2016 4:59 pm

DeadManDancing wrote:[snip]Whatever British viewers may complain about, compared to DWTS Strictly has remained so much more of a true competition where the dancing comes first.

Hi, guys. Thanks for the invite. Did not even know this thread existed. Not sure what I can add since I can't see the show in real time and have to wait for the YouTube uploads.

But responding to the above, Strictly, as you know, is a very different show from DWTS, even though the original premise of pairing celebs with pros is the same.

1. As I understand it, Strictly does not have to worry about ratings for its income stream. DWTS does. If DWTS does not keep evolving and changing, it will stagnate and die. If there isn't enough drama each week to create social media buzz and bring eyes to the screen, the show dies. The same would not happen to Strictly.

Americans by and large are very fickle audiences; they are always looking for the new shiny moving thing while discarding the predictable stable thing. This might be true of other cultures as well to some extent but I can't imagine an audience more fickle than an American one. Especially young America. Most shows have very short shelf lives. I really do not think that the show would have lasted if it had remained similar to Strictly. Folks would have given it up as boring long ago.

2. And there is the name difference to consider as well -- Strictly Come Dancing conveys the idea that their focus is strictly dancing, and everything else can be ignored. So they have remained true to their goals.

I would imagine that the name was changed when it crossed the ocean because the original (Strictly Come Dancing) sounds like an S & M porn show to American ears, but I really doubt that DWTS ever had the intention of keeping the show's focus on dancing. Not "strictly" anyway, more like "loosely".

I didn't watch the show until it was in its fifth season or so, but it seems to me that from the beginning, the emphasis was more on the human interest / emotional side of things than the actual dancing. It is like each couple has a story arc, and even the judges are pushing, and pushing hard, for the celebs to break out of their comfort zones and show different aspects of their personalities. They are looking for raw emotions and real time personality changes. They are looking for gut-wrenching pathos, as they add one differently-abled person after another to the celebrity mix. What real dance contest does that? Answer -- none.

3. Another difference in the shows is that whereas the DWTS finalists all get the same amount of money, with the winner just getting a cheap trophy, the Strictly winner gets a final paycheck of £100,000, which is a £25,000 bonus over the other finalists. That is a real prize. That extra bonus money determines a lot, I think, in the degree of seriousness that the judges use to determine their scores and keep it a real competition.

In the upcoming World of Dance show, where the prize for the winner is going to be 1 million dollars, we are being told that unlike other dance reality shows, there is a rigorous scoring system in place. It is the monetary nature of the prize that demands that; the more valuable the prize, the more likely will folks be questioning the validity of the scores and inspecting the scoring system for inherent biases. It thus becomes increasingly important to rigorously follow the scoring rules so as to be considered fair.

But DWTS judges have never had to really worry about following scoring rules because DWTS contestants are not paid for winning -- they are paid for performing, and the audience determines whether or not they come back each week. So, once again, the show is not set up as a real competition.

So, when you say "Strictly has remained so much more of a true competition where the dancing comes first", as if that should have been the goal of both shows, I have to wonder about the underlying assumption. I don't think DWTS ever wanted to have dancing come first. I think dancing has just been a medium through which to stage a drama that will interest and keep the public engaged season after season so the network can rake in advertising dollars. With a goal so different from that of the Strictly producers, we should expect that the means to the goals would be very different as well.

Comparing the two shows on this "true competition" yardstick is like comparing apples and oranges. They are both fruit, and both have Vitamin C in them, but the shape, the size, the color, the texture, the taste and the smell are very different. They were never meant to be the same.

Or so it seems to me...

by **DeadManDancing** Sun Dec 04, 2016 11:01 am

Psychee22 wrote:
DeadManDancing wrote:[snip]Whatever British viewers may complain about, compared to DWTS Strictly has remained so much more of a true competition where the dancing comes first.

Hi, guys. Thanks for the invite. Did not even know this thread existed. Not sure what I can add since I can't see the show in real time and have to wait for the YouTube uploads.
...

You're welcome, Psychee. You added a lot already... Wink

"DWTS started in the form of a pure ballroom competition". My impression too, but the words of Tony Dovolani. I think we can agree this guy knows what he's talking about. He was also first to admit the show took a different direction soon; maybe beginning with the Houghs and Mark Ballas joining the pros. More adaptions to the US market were done by the producers (necessarily, as you explained), and most of the time watching the differences is interesting, if not fascinating. Just this last season of DWTS was a bit overwhealming for me in many ways, so watching Strictly is kind of relaxing. Not that I don't have horses in this race too.

by **DeadManDancing** Sun Dec 04, 2016 12:28 pm

Funnily enough, last night's show reminded me of DWTS in many ways. The productions were a bit bigger than usual; which was inevitably mentioned by Len- surprise, surprise. Louise had a very 'American' setting for her Quickstep, Ore had the same theme as Laurie on Halloween (Chocolate Factory), and Judge Rinder's song was from Jersey Boys. Just Mark Ballas was missing this time, but he must be kind of occupied... Finally, Danny and Oti visited London's West End to watch the musical Dreamgirls and get into the mood for their performance. They also had a chance to talk to the leading actress: Amber Riley.

by **DeadManDancing** Sun Dec 04, 2016 3:35 pm

Judge Rinder just lost the dance-off against Ore. Justified, but sad. Good job, Oksana. Wonder why DWTS never gave her the chance to emerge from the troupe. The writing is on the wall for Ore; he's getting the scores but not the votes it seems.

by **Lesallee** Sun Dec 04, 2016 5:46 pm

Reading on a Strictly fan group page, the refrain sounds very familiar. Judge should have gone, shouldn't have gone, who cares. Louise is the judges favourite, no Danny is. Danny is too experienced, no he isn't, who cares. HaHa, DWTS or Strictly fans are the same.

It seems Ore is not leading the popularity parade though so it's probably him gone next.

by **Lesallee** Sun Dec 04, 2016 7:47 pm

Just read this on FB and it's perfect.

Having read through recent posts I have a clearer understanding of Strictly.
1. The results are fixed but nobody knows why, how or who by.
2. The judges have a favourite - it's Ore, Louise, Danny or possibly someone else. Again nobody knows why.
3. The judges judge on the quality of the dancing rather than on personalities but see point 2.
4. Some professional dancers are favoured but nobody knows by whom or how and it has nothing to do with the quality of their celebrity partner's dancing.
5. Age is irrelevant unless someone is under 20, over 60 or possibly exactly 28.
6. The short comment at the end of the show illustrates someone's personality even though it has been explained frequently that the pattern is sadness about person leaving, relief at getting through and excitement for next week and the comments are edited to fit that pattern.
7. Len will be replaced by Anton because he sang at the start of musicals week thus showing head judge qualities.
Simples really.

by **Lesallee** Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:34 pm

Len Goodman will mark his final appearance on Strictly Come Dancing with a special performance.
The dance expert recorded the Christmas special on Monday night. When it airs on 25th December it will be his last ever show as a Strictly judge.
Usually we only see Goodman showing off his moves during the Results Show's "Len's Lens", when he demonstrates for Claudia Winkleman exactly where the celebs have been going wrong.
But this time it is understood that Goodman dusted off his dance shoes and performed as part of a spectacular group number as his parting gift to the series that has made him a household name.
The 72-year-old has been with the show since it began in 2004, seeing it through 14 series.
Announcing his decision in July, Goodman said: "It is an honour being part of the wonderful Strictly Come Dancing family and I’m looking forward to my last series very much and to whatever comes next.”
Alongside his fellow judges Darcey Bussell, Bruno Tonioli and Craig Revel Horwood, as well as hosts Tess Daly and Claudia Winkleman, Goodman will say goodbye to the dance floor during the [url=http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2016-12-03/Also competing in the festive episode will be Saturdays singer Frankie Bridge (series 12's runner-up), writer and actress Pamela Stephenson (series eight), TV chef Ainsley Harriott (series 13) and presenter Gethin Jones (series five). They will be partnering with pro dancers Anton Du Beke, Gorka Marquez, Chloe Hewitt, Pasha Kovalev, Janette Manrara and Karen Clifton.]annual Christmas special.[/url]
They will welcome back former contestants Denise Lewis, Melvin Odoom, Frankie Bridge, Pamela Stephenson, Ainsley Harriott and Gethin Jones as they compete for the Christmas Silver Star trophy.

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by **DeadManDancing** Mon Dec 05, 2016 2:47 pm

I think Lennie might still appear on DWTS for a few weeks next season, but for Strictly it's really the end of an era. Not the end of the show of course; it's three years now that Sir Bruce retired, and it didn't hurt them. The show itself is always bigger than any of its protagonists- which, by the way, is another significant difference between the mothership and the American version.
However, I'll miss Len. They still have Craig though, who gets most of the booing anyway, Darcey, and Bruno. I'm confident they will maintain the standard. Thinking of Nastia and Derek's Waltz from season 20, I have an idea what Len's final appearance will be like...

by bailadora Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:22 pm

My first post comes pretty late in the season but thx for the invite to your board. Even though SCD is known for its higher judging standards, Len departure will remove the only judge to come from the professional ballroom dancing scene. Hopefully standards & understanding will be maintained. His departure will have a bigger impact on DWTS since, as psychee said, its relationship to ballroom standards has been distant for some time (and the judge remaining with proper ballroom experience--Julianne-- has been willing to bend her critiques in favor of the show's narrative).

Back to Strictly, I'm a Danny/Oti fan but this past week I really enjoyed Claudia's number. It was full of energy, joyful, full of salsa content & well executed. The only mistakes were AJ's iffy lifts. Given her background and her height those lifts should have been clean. It seems that AJ lacks the upper body strength necessary. He wouldn't last long as a DWTS pro. And that seems to be a problem for SCD: its inability to keep the most talented pros. The lack of advertising revenue of the BBC seems to be the main obstacle to offering good contracts to their best dancers. After this season's performance I expect Oti to also make the move across the pond, particularly because DWTS needs good non-white ballroom dancers and Keo had difficulty teaching less than stellar partners. I surmise that the move is not easy: get better pay, more creative freedom, exposure to the american market and to Hollywood but also highly inconsistent and arbitrary judgment.

by **DeadManDancing** Tue Dec 06, 2016 4:45 pm

Always a pleasure to read your thoughtful and well-balanced comments, bailadora. Let me start with Oti. You may know she's the only pro appearing on two versions of the show: Let's Dance (Germany, where her sister is judging) in the spring; SCD in the fall. I wouldn't be surprised either if she got the call from Rob Wade; it would be a big step in her career, and the judging on DWTS is indeed but a necessary evil...
For me, the biggest problem at their table is the biased, inconsistent Carrrie Ann. Should Len decide to bow out there too, they should go back to three judges only and replace Inaba with someone who combines expertise, experience, and credibility. I'm thinking of Kym Johnson. She could easily follow in Len's footsteps, and no one would call her grumpy.
Now for the current season of Strictly, it seems Claudia and Ore are less poular with the viewers than Danny and Louise (who, like Laurie and James on DWTS, seem pretty much ahead of the competition). Although both Claudia and Ore deservedly went this far, one of them will probably leave next week. One of the reasons is certainly that Oti and Kevin have maintained a higher standard with their choreographies over the entire season than Joanne and AJ.

by **DeadManDancing** Wed Dec 07, 2016 1:59 pm

I forgot to mention one detail that perfectly fits the discussion about the judges. Last saturday, Claudia received her first ten of the competition for the Salsa. It was handed out by no one else than Bruno, who explained the insecurity in the final lift was clearly AJ's fault and Claudia shouldn't be held responsible. I was immediately reminded of James and Sharna's redemption Foxtrot, where he pretended he hadn't noticed the misstep (that was caused by a wardrobe-malfunction anyway)- which is hard to believe because he usually never misses any detail. I am convinced in bott cases he decided to balance what he thought was unjustified down marking of the celebrities. He probably even figured that reasonable argumentation as used on Strictly would get him nowhere on DWTS; so he took the easy way and overlooked the mistake James wasn't responsible for. I'd say Bruno could easily take the middle seat on both shows, and no one should get fooled by his flamboyance and exuberance. He knows his stuff and he knows how to play the game.

by **Lesallee** Wed Dec 07, 2016 4:45 pm

You know we are on the same page about Bruno, bro. He is very sharp and hands out the best critiques of all the judges, either show. He is completely qualified for head judge. Unlikely to happen though.

by bailadora Wed Dec 07, 2016 9:56 pm

Claudia has definitely being hampered by partnering with AJ. The producers wanted a young couple but he is just too green to be a pro. Of the contestants left, Louise had the most public recognition prior to SCD. I'm surprised that with her education (she studied in the same performing arts school as Mark Ballas & the Houghs) and professional experience so many of her dances are so flat. Ore--who has no performance background-- is better able to emote than her. Her Calamity Jane was a case in point. Ore has had some very good dances and we have to give credit to Joanne for quickly teaching him. But his last dance was not his best; he still has some balance issues that were revealed in the slow dance. His personality also seems to be too emotional (too Maureenish) for the average British taste.

So I agree that the final would be between Danny & Louise if no big incident occurs. There should be no controversy about ringers between them because both had prior dance training. Hopefully the best performer will win.

by **Lesallee** Wed Dec 07, 2016 10:18 pm

I belong to a FB Strictly fan group, bailadora, and I can assure you there is a lot of chatter about the ringer status of both Danny and Louise. Just as with DWTS some are outraged and some don't give a hoot. But they are talking. Claudia is very popular while Ore is thought to be next to go.

Should be an interesting finale.

by **DeadManDancing** Thu Dec 08, 2016 1:18 pm

The ringer discussions are probably the same wherever the show is aired. In Germany, we have also had our share of gymnasts, figure skaters, musical performers, HipHop dancers, and so on. Most of them went to the finals or even won. Sort out everyone with prior experience, and nobody would be watching an entire season. These people usually bring out the best in their pro partners and make fore the most watcheable performances. Just sometimes someone with zero dance experience steals the show- like Nyle DiMarco and James Hinchcliffe on DWTS or Caroline Flack and Jay McGuiness on Strictly. Since both Danny and Louise aren't novices and Claudia also benefits from her training, the playing field is pretty even. Ore may be in a disadvantage technically, but for me he compensates for that with unexpected performing skills. Just Joannes choreographies aren't always convincing imo. I loved her take on the Paso; last week's Foxtrot- not so much.
Claudia is maybe even smaller than Laurie; so none of the regular pros would have fitted her. Bailadora is right, AJ is probably too unexperienced. But they have no such thing as the DWTS troupe; so new pros are always thrown in at the deep end. I wouldn't want to be a judge on SCD next Sunday and send one of them home. It all comes down to their pros and what dance style they are getting, and it could go either way. I'm secretly hoping for Claudia, because she is such a joy to watch.

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