In defense of Kirk and not defending him

by WesternRomanceWtr Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:02 am

Don't get me wrong, I disagree with how Kirk handled his breakup with Carly. But he wasn't entirely wrong, either. We as viewers may not realize how easy it is to get swept up in the moment. You're in a beautiful place, surrounded by attractive people wearing minimal clothes, isolated for the most part from the real world, and constantly being fed alcohol. You may also have producers off screen encouraging you to get more deeply involved with a particular person. It's not the real world and easier than we may think to fall into a trap.

Kirk may have been really enjoying himself with Carly in that moment, but as the show started to come to a close, reality may have started to set in, and he began to have doubts. That's all okay and acceptable and even normal. I give him props for telling Carly and not leading her on. That would have been grossly unfair. He also wasn't mean in his delivery. However, his mistake was ripping the rug out of under her without giving her any warning whatsoever (again, is it possible he was encouraged by producers to handle this a certain way for "drama"?). He should have started letting her down easy a few days before. Dropping very strong hints like, "Let's slow this down a bit," or "Don't think about moving out to join me until we've given this some time," or "I think we should date for at least six months before we talk about marriage and having a family." They may not even have broken up but agreed to see each other after the show. Or, if they did break up, she would have seen some warning signs, assuming she wasn't so smitten she ignored them.

As far as him following her. Again, right idea, wrong execution. He dropped a bombshell and was trying to repair the damage. Some guys would have just walked away. Stalking her, however, wasn't the best approach. She was deeply hurt and needed some time to process her emotions. He should have just said he would like very much to talk to her and would be available when, and if, she was ready to listen. If not, then so be it.

by **Ughwhatname** Mon Sep 07, 2015 11:21 am

I happen to agree with you completely. I think he pushed so hard to have a conversation with Carly because he cares so deeply for her. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear that wasn't the end of their relationship after all. I could see a "where are they now" piece being shown tonight and find they got together to talk the flowing day before returning home. Kirk seemed to get a serious case of cold feet. Carly talking about having his babies probably tipped him over the edge. He just wasn't rad for that yet.

by **Glittersisgld** Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:45 pm

I'm sure those 2 can talk eventually after the show, but I felt that maybe partly Carly felt used. He was with her for 5 weeks and then he decides it might not be the right thing. He may have changed his attitude after the show, but I feel that he comes across as kind of weak and that's why he waited to tell her for a week how he felt. He even said that off the show he keeps a lot of his feelings in. He should have left Carly alone in that moment. Of course, she didn't want to hear him repeat what he was saying over and over. He could always connect with her after the show. I think Kirk is attracted to Carly because she is more fearless and shows emotion more easily.

by **Starz** Mon Sep 07, 2015 1:55 pm

I also agree with you two and posted this in another thread --

I can "understand" Carly to a point, however, she showed herself to be very immature and lacking in human understanding. Kirk really did care for her and was getting cold feet as 99.9% of men do when they are falling for someone. She could have used that to her advantage and made their relationship even stronger. But being an immature brat, she flushed a good thing down the toilet.
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New addition:

BIP is shot in 3 weeks. They change their words to sound like it is 6 weeks to correspond to the TV show. So Kirk had doubts for 3 days? It was her, "I want to have your babies", comment that threw him into doubt. It was way too early to say that statement in their relationship.

Kirk felt compelled to speak up because of the overnight date they were facing. I think that was honorable of him to not want to sleep with her with his doubts.

by **Glittersisgld** Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:18 pm

Kirk said he felt this way for a week and just didn't tell her.

by **Glittersisgld** Mon Sep 07, 2015 2:20 pm

I'm sure Kirk cares about Carly, but he kind of comes across like a wet noodle.

by OhPlease12 Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:24 pm

Starz wrote:I also agree with you two and posted this in another thread --

I can "understand" Carly to a point, however, she showed herself to be very immature and lacking in human understanding. Kirk really did care for her and was getting cold feet as 99.9% of men do when they are falling for someone. She could have used that to her advantage and made their relationship even stronger. But being an immature brat, she flushed a good thing down the toilet.
----------------------------

New addition:

BIP is shot in 3 weeks. They change their words to sound like it is 6 weeks to correspond to the TV show. So Kirk had doubts for 3 days? It was her, "I want to have your babies", comment that threw him into doubt. It was way too early to say that statement in their relationship.

Kirk felt compelled to speak up because of the overnight date they were facing. I think that was honorable of him to not want to sleep with her with his doubts.

I agree Starz. I felt that Carly was overly cocky and confident about their relationship the entire time. She really took it for granted, to the degree that she announced they would make it to the end of the show. Even when Kirk came to talk with her and they were walking to the beach, she teasingly said, "are you breaking up with me?" and then giggled, like it could not possibly be true.

The thing is, Carly is in her own world, and doesn't pick up clues and red flags, because she wants what she wants. Way back in the beginning, Kirk said that he was probably not the guy for her because he takes things very slowly, and that he had recently come off a break-up. Then, throughout the show he has intermittantly looked gunshy, at least to the camera anyway. But Carly just barreled through yapping about having babies and spending her life with him. It finally came to light when she was talking with the girls, that she has said vulnerable things to him, but he has not responded back in kind. And then she said that he just needed a little push. She was wrong, he needed someone to understand how he felt and what he wanted. It would have been better if Kirk had broken it off sooner, but I think he was afraid of the fallout both from Carly and the group.

by Dazz Mon Sep 07, 2015 3:59 pm

If someone told me they would move to my town and have babies with me after 3 weeks, I'd probably have some cold feet. Pump the brakes Carly. The man just told her he was recently out of a long relationship and scared/vulnerable. Her reaction to his breaking up with her was raw and emotional, but she reacted very immature. Another red flag. I'm beginning to see why all of these people are still single!

by **Starz** Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:03 pm

Dazz wrote:If someone told me they would move to my town and have babies with me after 3 weeks, I'd probably have some cold feet. Pump the brakes Carly. The man just told her he was recently out of a long relationship and scared/vulnerable. Her reaction to his breaking up with her was raw and emotional, but she reacted very immature. Another red flag. I'm beginning to see why all of these people are still single!

Yep, yep, yep!

by **Starz** Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:05 pm

OhPlease12 wrote:
The thing is, Carly is in her own world, and doesn't pick up clues and red flags, because she wants what she wants.

She was the same way with Chris Soules.

by **Glittersisgld** Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:16 pm

A lot of people are like that. It's called being in denial.

by OhPlease12 Mon Sep 07, 2015 4:35 pm

Starz wrote:
OhPlease12 wrote:
The thing is, Carly is in her own world, and doesn't pick up clues and red flags, because she wants what she wants.
She was the same way with Chris Soules.

Yes she was, I wonder if she'll ever learn from her mistakes. I guess I could say the same about most people though, including myself. LOL!

by **SLA44** Mon Sep 07, 2015 5:07 pm

Ughwhatname wrote:I happen to agree with you completely. I think he pushed so hard to have a conversation with Carly because he cares so deeply for her. I wouldn't be surprised if we hear that wasn't the end of their relationship after all. I could see a "where are they now" piece being shown tonight and find they got together to talk the flowing day before returning home. Kirk seemed to get a serious case of cold feet. Carly talking about having his babies probably tipped him over the edge. He just wasn't rad for that yet.

I was thinking along the same lines Ugh. I thought that Kirk was one of the most honest and nicest guys on the show and I really do think he had feelings for her but she was just moving a little too fast for him. I guess maybe we will find out one day or not.

by Dazz Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:23 pm

Tenley pretty did the same thing to Joshua. She knew where he lived and she is so full of crap...

by **dori1333** Mon Sep 07, 2015 10:58 pm

Ya she did ,I agree Dazz,Wow! Carly couldn't have been anymore spiteful toward Kirk!I felt so bad for him,You could tell that was so hard for him! I say to him ,thank your lucky stars you listened to your instincts! Thats all folks,The end! I am happy for Jade! They are a really cute couple!

by BSkeptical Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:56 am

Dazz wrote:Tenley pretty did the same thing to Joshua. She knew where he lived and she is so full of crap...

I agree. It appears she was doing an awful lot of acting to not even want to date at all after the show. According to RS, she has a thing for Ben H. She seems to have no problem visiting Colorado. Idaho not so much.

by **dori1333** Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:57 am

by Regina Phalange Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:23 am

I just cannot get on the Kirk bus. Carly said he was as much a part of those "life after BIP" conversations as she was, saying he wanted to go to her brother's reception, saying he already has a house with a yard (implying he's ready for her to move, marriage, babies), etc. I believe his reasons for ending it with her. I believe he really felt he wasn't there yet with her, but yet he still had those conversations. I'm not disappointed he ended it with Carly, I'm disappointed he waited and let her fall as hard as she did.

Carly seems immature to me, but I'm not dating her. He appeared to develop genuine feelings for her after his initial reservations, so all of that considered, it's a shame he let things play out the way he did.

by AGnawKneeMoose Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:32 pm

I think it boils down to self-awareness and good communication - both of which seemed to have completely eluded Kirk until he broke it off. (Now he wants an open, honest talk...) In general, I think he actually does seem like a decent guy, but just handled this situation very, very badly. No one around them seemed to see this coming at all either, so it's not just that Carly was romanticizing the situation in her own headspace (like Ashley I.). Carly isn't perfect either, but it's just really hard not to hurt for her when she seemed so happy and got so horribly blindsided.

And again, as I see it, the difference with Tenley and Joshua was the communication. I didn't see Tenley putting out or accepting the same kind of serious "life together" signals that were there between Kirk and Carly. Kind of the opposite. I think there were sparks and she enjoyed spending time with Joshua, but had doubts about the long term and (if Joshua was able and willing to read her) was actually indicating that all along.

by Regina Phalange Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:04 pm

Well said.

by **singlyme** Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:10 pm

Regina Phalange wrote:I just cannot get on the Kirk bus. Carly said he was as much a part of those "life after BIP" conversations as she was, saying he wanted to go to her brother's reception, saying he already has a house with a yard (implying he's ready for her to move, marriage, babies), etc. I believe his reasons for ending it with her. I believe he really felt he wasn't there yet with her, but yet he still had those conversations. I'm not disappointed he ended it with Carly, I'm disappointed he waited and let her fall as hard as she did.

Carly seems immature to me, but I'm not dating her. He appeared to develop genuine feelings for her after his initial reservations, so all of that considered, it's a shame he let things play out the way he did.

I agree with what you're saying about Kirk. He seems a good guy who got caught up, only realizing at the last moment, "Hey, wait a minute."

But for those who say breaking up with her hurt him equally is like the dad who's pulling a belt from his trousers, while saying, "This is going to hurt me a lot more than it hurts you." Like hell, it is.

I believe kirk felt her pain and wanted to fix it, but perhaps he should have taken more time to work out exactly how he was going to break it to her. He could have kept his mouth shut until after the show, then let the relationship slowly dissolve.

by Zinartwo Tue Sep 08, 2015 5:39 pm

Dazz wrote:Tenley pretty did the same thing to Joshua. She knew where he lived and she is so full of crap...

I agree that Tenley knew where Joshua lived but she probably liked him a lot and hoped that somehow they could work things out in spite of their distance. The show takes people to exotic locations, constantly gets them all drunk so they tend to let reality slip away. It's tough being on this show when most people probably don't live near each other. That's why I think it's a bad idea to get involved with most people on the show unless he/she is willing to move to the other person's state. That is the only way to truly pursue a future together.

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